The Oceans Movies - Heists, Technology and Teamwork!

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checkpoint real talk a podcast for security folks who want less fud and

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more Fu n in each episode we'll have light-hearted conversations about

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security people processes and Technology as we react to how they're portrayed in

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film and TV we'll bring in experts from inside and outside checkpoint to break it down what was accurate what wasn't

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and what can you apply to real world cyber events on today's episode host CIA

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yotat checkpoint head of engineering East US Mark asosi and Atlantic data

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security cyber security evangelist Eric Anderson react to the movies oceans 8

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and 13 good morning good afternoon good evening welcome back to checkpoint Real

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Talk where we check out some movies TV shows and we decide hey is it real not real is it possible probable and this

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week week we are super excited because we are doing something slightly different we're looking at two different

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scenes from the movie oceans 8 and Oceans 13 so if you're a big fan of the

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oceans franchise I think you'll know why we picked these certain scenes there was a ton to choose from so I know because

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we did our little prep call together we could do this forever but I had to limit down to two because they do talk a lot

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so those people I'm referencing Mark and Eric welcome to checkpoint Real

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Talk hey how's it going all right now is not the time to be shy you two cuz have a lot to talk

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about we do so okay full disclosure yet again isn't this the funniest thing I

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say this every episode and I'm starting to I used to think I was like a pop culture reference person but I have not

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seen an oceans movie yeah well I was saying just just we I opened when we

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talked earlier I I love the oceans movies I mean I'm a junkie there's only a few genre of movies that I like I've

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probably seen these movies every holiday weekend because they play

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them over and over and over again so I've seen them hundreds of times probably wait I just like movies in

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general so when there's a franchise that's all decent um I'll I'll jump onto it I won't watch franchise over and over

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but certain movies I definitely do and uh and these I've seen a couple times now so this is a familyfriendly holiday

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movie for all I think I think so I think so yeah

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well like look I I I know the: 1960

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was an excuse for the rap pack to film in Vegas right was that basically the gist of it like for them to party out there it seems like it yeah yeah two

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month two months of filming probably oh yeah I mean I I wonder how it was

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financed to some degree by those in Vegas too to be like hey come on out to the desert well they used real

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casinos they didn't protect the names of the innocent there were five actual casinos four of which I think still exist oh wow well those they were owned

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by the mob back then were I think they were blatant about it too weren't they like this is a mob owned joint like you don't mess around I think so I think

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they were kind of instilling in viewers that don't try to do this don't do this at home we're professionals leave it to

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well I was I was watching some scenes from the 60s which didn't make the cut guys so highly recommend everyone want

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to watch it you should check it out but there was like the heist scene clip that I saw and I thought it was really

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interesting because for that one they they actually cut the power so they actually affected the grid but they did

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it old school style which is they literally knocked down a power like explosive right um okay so let's fast

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forward um help me understand real quick so there's oceans 8 and Oceans 13 I saw Oceans Eight clip first um which I

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thought was fascinating because I think it's the later movie right it's the women now it's a women's Heist most the

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most recent yeah and that's that's what's kind of crazy when when you look at the franchise I mean Oceans 13 was

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2007 I mean that's like not like yesterday right so like 11 and 12 are

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you know obviously even older but you know eight obviously being the most recent so probably the most I don't know

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Eric would you agree probably the most if you're thinking about it and hacking and Technology it's probably the most up

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Tod date because: 2007

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ago well I think if you look at the whole Five movie franchise they've gotten progressively more Tech obviously

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I mean I mean the the one that most of us know with where Clooney took over for Frank Sinatra um in the Danny ocean role

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in: 2001

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technology involvement just a little bit they refer to some things here but they're not using computers to break into the casinos that's not how you

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would have done it 20 years slly off topic but even Oceans 11 that scene where they tap the ethernet cable with

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to intercept like the video they they they they pick up a handheld TV with an antenna I mean it's like because get

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thinking and and it's a little device about this big that just you know um vampires onto a cat 5K crazy I

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mean that's Instant Video feeds well that would be like the the the physical

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form of man in the middle though wouldn't it like literally be like literally like literally would be that

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and I think it's funny how I mean again if you think about the timing on that that was a long time ago right so like

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it's just it's interesting to see how the technology evolved but and how we ended up at Oceans 13 was interesting as

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well because it's starting to push that envelope of like they talked about AI right in the first scene right almost

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the first couple scenes so it's interesting but in 13 as we'll see there there's actually a very good example of

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a very realistic breach yeah with with one or two little things that aren't so

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yeah yeah real but uh but but in general it's much more true to form because people are smarter people even average

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consumer that isn't in this industry knows more and knows when Hollywood is being Hollywood yeah super interesting

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yeah no I I like the way uh I've always felt like Hollywood and Technology they

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do go hand inand in a lot of ways like right like you think of Hollywood as being entertaining but they offer a lot

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of vision a lot of visionary stuff that probably already exists I mean to a large degree is already discussed I I

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would like to think there are some futurists out there that have already discussed it but fact that Hollywood puts like pen to paper and puts it on

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camera you know does it on camera even like exist anymore because isn't everything on digital camera I mean not

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film I don't know is anything film don't film anymore yeah it's a good a I mean yeah it

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probably probably probably becomes like a niche thing right like we're going to film on film right oh you get Christopher Nolan

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and and his big Productions without special effects that he likes you know the big film and it still does things

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that digital can't kind of kind of kind of unrelated to um what we're going to talk about but even like when you go to

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technology we talked about blowing up something like in the original movie and then in the course of the oceans

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franchise you've got like magnetrons you've got emps like so they you're right Hollywood kind of throws these

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things that actually exist but does it really work like that in real life you know can you back up a van with an em

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and knockout Vegas maybe I don't know but so it's in it's it's uh it's it's

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fun to actually see how they how they portray on TV you take a little artistic license

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but but to your point earlier even prior to Hollywood it was in science fiction novels you know would drive technology

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and invent things that didn't exist and then eventually you look back and say wow Bradberry predicted

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this yeah to geek out for a second I mean AI think about think about the

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reality of generative AI we're only like 11 months into it not and and this movie

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was: 2007

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people's you know eyes and their emotions and their temperatures and

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using that and big data to create this like oh this is a real response that I

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forward thinking that was in: 2007

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in: 2023

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a lot of creative you know things moving so it's well I'm I'm I'm not

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coincidentally wearing a shirt that that's like a a spoof on the uh blue screen of death but it's actually Hal's

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tirade when when AI has become sentient and says I'm sorry Dave I'm afraid I can't do that I love that I do love that

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line and I do I think I say that line probably weekly to

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clients some get the reference some do not fewer and fewer get the reference

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every year that goes on stop it anyway okay guys well hey are you

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guys ready for the first one

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I am so sorry sir I tried to stop him not your fault sweethart you can't stop a man jum 36 Greyhounds in end it's all

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right Lu oh is that like evil evil guy Mr

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Bank do you know what Chuck Barry said every night before counting 1 2 3

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4 what did he say pay me my money well I'm sure my people will be in

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cash cash you've already been wired the money

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Mr Bank this is this is th this is offender Road's moment you in yet why do

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I feel like yeah this is the best part so these are the hacker

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guys oh okay Mr Mr listen all du respect all do

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respect sir you got a job tomorrow running this place you go to work every

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day oh you're on you're on I make one phone call I get Sean White Travis Pastrana five of their buddies here

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before midnight doing uh heel clickers and lazy boys off the back of the building yes yes if your audience wants

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to see a bunch of long hairs riding rice Rockets but I'm talking about heavy bikes sir this is heavy bike F the road

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is a I'm a goddamn American [Music]

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Icon oh change it that much keep it keep the structure I'm trying to make you taller should be taller in 34 states an

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animal in the other 34 24 22 this is a night people will

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talk about as long as there's a lost Vegas and when they're talking about it they'll either be talking about you or

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they won't now that's your

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choice Mr Bank can I just say one more thing [Music]

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okay are you going to jump okay guys I think okay there's so much in this scene

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right here that um I have to talk about number one um what was he downloading

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something or they just got into him machine like some RDP style was was was the alucino

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character um Bank Mr Bank uh was actually tapped into illegally tapped

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into the FBI's database oh for his own security purposes so he was already

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breaking the law to just to to set it up um and they knew this so they knew he

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would go verifying the identities of these potential perpetrators and they needed to help

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make sure that he couldn't identify them so cheel went in with a great distraction while they uh yeah in great

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great Hollywood fashion pan to the keyboard right and then you know they're in there starting to like change

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the you know the uh the visuals live you know in on the FBI database remotely

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from a you know that's that's the part like you know it goes back to what we just talked about like that generative

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inly I mean Eric I don't know: 2007

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lked about and here we are in: 2007

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session on a hacked FBI communication I mean that's the part that with with the

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keybard he wasn't using the mouse to like drag the the hair to change the size was all keyboard to to quickly look

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ny cuz I was just thinking in: 2007

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what's that one Tomb Raider was still very much like that wonky almost like Minecraft level like it starting to get

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a little bit better but it was not nowhere near of these morphing faces that you guys are talking about yeah

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yeah yeah I mean gosh I mean the CGI even like was still kind of really

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cy level wasn't it still like: 2007

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you know even when you were generating movies with CGI it was taking you know hours to to generate a couple seconds of

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a scene yeah and that that's the part that you know again when you when you go backwards 15 whatever number of years

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here we are in a in a time in: 2023

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change faces and features but to do that live and to do that with a keyboard and

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remotely I mean going back to: 2007

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Hollywood I mean that this is it's becoming more and more reality as we kind of go through the years but it's uh

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it's a great scene it's a great scene okay so yeah I think they key on things that they know might be possible are

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possible to some small degree and they just exaggerate and expand it well they make it pretty

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yep you have to and it furthers a narrative I'm catching with you're pitching guys but again I need to

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understand from a reality perspective because it's been like I've been out of the the cyber security game for many

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decades if you will but but not Tech just to clarify don't enough to be dangerous but the idea that you're rping

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into this remote you know this this laptop and you're doing a session I guess you could see what they're doing

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because it's on your desktop that they're keying into right but is it really an RDP or isn't it or is it they

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hacked in they hacked into his laptop that's hacking into the FBI they didn't go into FBI directly correct so it's

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like tunnel within a tunnel within another tunnel I mean I mean that's just Fantastical like how could you

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possibly is is is it showing that that fundamental weakness where that's the weakest link and that's it is that still

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a problem in cyber security today or is that not possible definitely definitely and

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and yet it wasn't that bank had legitimate access bank bank had illegal access but they knew that so they

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piggybacked over his access he was the weakest link because and you know in truth if he was able to somehow get

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access they could have probably done the same thing but it was more interesting to to show them hacking Bank instead of

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hacking the FBI and think about think about all the layers that we know Eric in you know in cyber security think

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about the the just the the casino itself what they have in place right firewalls and threat

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prevention and then the on the end points and then think of all the infrastructure that literally Hollywood

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bypassed for a scene in like 10 seconds right like because we you know right

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prior to that scene you know they're not doing this this hack or this this uh remote RDP session they're doing

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something else and all of a sudden the laptop comes up and they're already in so think so you think about all those

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layer of cyber security or bypass authentication intrusion prevention and endpoint and the Gateway itself are they

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coming in remotely because they actually were coming in from a tunnel right underground which is another thing you don't even think about so they had to

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come in from underground get a connection get through the security of the casino get to his desktop and then

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start doing all of the CGI type stuff so like you think about it in real life it's way more complicated than just here

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it is and yet there's a really cool Point here that's made very subtly that even

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with all of that exaggerated digital you know electronic hacking there's still

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was an essential social element which was Don che's character distracting him so he couldn't see this while they were

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making the changes and without that social piece the whole thing wouldn't work okay yeah again yes and it's funny

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because he's like that's okay so that laptop's behind him facing outward if I'm hacking into the FBI you think my

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monitor is going to be facing outward for the rest of the world to Frack it's going to be right in front of me and my

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office door is going to be unlocked so this Entertainer you know evil coneval guy can come walking in it seems to me

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like quite a few people have the opportunity to barge into Mr bank's office because like his like executive assistant doesn't seem to do a very good

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job because I think I've seen other scenes where she's like I'm sorry and it's like girl what trip them or

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something like like how are you getting past and like it's such an elaborate setup too but anyway I digress well and

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yet later in the movie their physical security doesn't even let them get out of their data center when they need to

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when they're under attack it's a whole different scene where they're they're physically locked in somewhere so locks are very Hollywood uh convenient okay so

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the other question U it wasn't shown in this clip I have to ask before you move on but uh the hackers that were in there

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they had to go into the tunnels uh did they actually hardwire in or was this over Wi-Fi because it doesn't actually

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show I'm just curious cuz then at what speed of like this Wi-Fi connection with all metal in the tunnel like that's your

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own natural at faay cage or something like I was curious did they show that

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I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they were underground right Eric in that scene right they were underground with

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with that drill but they yep but there's racks too there there's racks of equipment and you know lots of wires

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around so I'm going to give them the benefit that they actually hard yeah yeah yeah as they were boring a hole to

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uh create an an earthquake simulated for the bank Hotel totally

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realistic well never mind there's other scenes where they rig um uh slot machines easily somehow they very easily

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put rig slot machines to to hit a progressive and yet that's not the easiest way to steal the casino's money

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it's it's drilling underground and emps and other other fun things magnetron you

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can you can't hack into a slot machine though right as long as anything's got an IP address I'm assuming everything's

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vulnerable and up for uh potential hacking no yeah I mean I think

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all if if it was that easy everyone would do it well I think it goes back to what we talked about before like in

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reality you know you know I'm sure you treat casino slot machines like critical

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infrastructure it's not going to be something that's going to be accessible by everybody so you take that Hollywood

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license yeah I mean it it becomes more possible in Hollywood because mysteriously they're already connected

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in there but in reality it's there's a lot of measures put in place and a lot of things that would have to be bypassed

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in order to to get into a slot machine but um well even with the slot machines there was a very analog defense there

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which was analysis of the winner because once the the woman hit cuz the the the 13 the Oceans 13 didn't win they set it

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up so the next player would win the progressive as a distraction and when she wins they immediately cut to video

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footage of her and and they're presumably a ceso type character played

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by the late great Julian sanss starts analyzing this video saying nope her her pulse is normal she's not sweating and

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and he judged her very quickly to be a legitimate winner and notam general I think I think they use the term like

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genuine emotion or something like that it was like it wasn't somebody who expected to win but that you know again

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it's like that's you know I keep on saying it but this is a long time ago but you think about AI today it's the

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same stuff right it's like it's a lot of how many how many pieces of data can you bring in then use the algorithm to be

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able to determine whether it's genuine or not and then you have to have the human element that interfaces with that

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to make the reaction so Hollywood's way ahead of its time um what cracks me up though I'm totally unrelated to the to

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the scene we just talked about but when they show AI in Hollywood they always show like LED lights like like almost

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like kitten and Night Rider right the the this this the sequencing of uh LED lights that's AI you know it's like it

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cracks me up like that's what we we need to be able to see to to say that it's like artificial intelligence so it's uh

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yeah just you know I forget about Kit as one of the early AI yeah true very true

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and night Industries: 2000

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aware of itself too Michael oh yeah it was automated driving before Tesla was

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even Clos we're totally dating ourselves by the way talking about Night Rider I do that all the

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time if you don't know Bradberry go check it out night rider was a lot of fun fun and you'll get to see David

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Hassel Hoff at his Peak the Hof it actually it almost looks like a Tesla like that modified Firebird I mean you

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think about it it's kind of got that same you know yeah sort of I don't know

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anyways the Hoff with his shirt on I just love that even today like they went

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with a I think a British actor to do the voiceover like even back then they like oh yeah the British AC's more uh you

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you know palatable versus like I don't know a New York Bronx accent or something smarter that way yeah it's

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smarter that way all right guys oh my go we can keep going but I definitely want us to hit up

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this next one because I think it's so cool um and it's Rihanna come on peoples it's I think this was her acting debut I

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guess and she gets to be a hacker of All Things soan Great are you guys ready great this is um o this is Oceans 8 and

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uh I mean yeah check it out out so uh are you guys ready to go

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[Music] ready she's in a coffee is she in a bar

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she's in a bar

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yeah oh yes I love realism of this

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they're actually showing the true anatomy of a Brees let's find a Target find someone who might have access we

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need y um then stalk him social I mean these are things we talk about all the time like this is what we warn people

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not to do is to give too much information on public Pages cuz it just turns into a bad situation when you're

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targeted yeah oh my gosh and I love the stickers on the

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laptop I love that I love hackers always have stickers on the

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laptop yes you want to go Incognito and not be identified as a hacker just go with a

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clean laptop

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interesting so sticky notes no idea oh STI oh sticky note with passwords on

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there it is see there they are there's the sticky note oh but they don't even Target his password in this this is uh

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t guys he has a webcam yep in: 2007

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to see it in a second now Rihanna has his webcam excuse me nineball

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character and instantaneously after he clicked the link in in her uh and the realism of this scene is that this is

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exactly this this is totally doable this is what how this is actually how it works you know the targeting the spare

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fishing you know using social media to find out characteristics of people this

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this is how it works and yeah and and she now owns his computer but then waits

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till he leaves goes home for the night and immediately as soon as he turns off the lights rather than waiting maybe

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until 2: in the morning she immediately uh those poking around his

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machine there's a little bit of Hollywood in a second but uh cuz she doesn't have his password she just has his machine she's got a a remote access

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to his device but now she needs a password and she doesn't have it and this is where little fun by the way

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she's home now yes yeah well cuz cuz she had wait

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for him to go home too so it was a few hours later but she used this little device remotely to somehow brute for his

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password I know I love that I I want to know how I want to know where that came [Music]

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from and the whole reason is to be able to Monitor and potentially reposition security uh cameras at the

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mat so okay so let's talk about this because that to me uh I think has been

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done and will be done I I actually watch short videos on YouTube of this like

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hack I don't know if it's Facebook or YouTube or Tik Tok I don't know what it is I don't do Tik Tok but it's like a

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group that goes after scammers and they video them and they capture them like

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atnot yeah so this is back in: 2013

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years: 2018

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but you're right: 2018

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[Laughter] that but yeah no I mean I think I think

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to your point I this this is you know this this is almost like every day this

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is what we this is what people in cyber security were warning people about and have been warning people about you don't

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have a webcam that you know is in your office that has and then have the

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picture of all of your security camera locations on the wall wall a sticky note on the on the you know with a password

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probably on that on their on their uh their screen you know social media sites

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that have information that you use for a spare fishing attack you know all those things you know these are all the

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warnings that we that that we we we tell people not to have around not to mention they again they don't show all

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the the the uh the infrastructure that was bypassed to get to this person's of

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course like it just go straight to the scene I'm taking over but even then presumably he had he had outbound

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internet which is how how he got that notification and click the link and that's that's the realism of this is if

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you're not protecting your outbound traffic as well then that's how this connection was actually initiated from

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him outbound to corporate you know being on a corporate Network and having access to

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Facebook and using non-corporate accounts like these are things too that you know a lot of organizations don't

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allow um this this particular case case it's you know super super wide open and and this is on a machine that has access

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to the security cameras you know I mean yeah and yet the simplest fix for this

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would have been MFA because you see that the password she needed was just a single password that she was able to

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brute force in seconds with some mystery device over the over over the air over

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the real ear that's the part that cracks me up put this device next next to the uh next to the screen all of a sudden

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like over the air it brute forces their password even just all the attempts at all those

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thousands and hundreds of thousands of passwords would take time to transmit oh my gosh you never mind lock them out

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eventually but but to Mark's point I think that this is very realistic even it was Kevin mitnik did similar things

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in the 90s the original social engineer from a cyber perspective from a data perspective where I think his one of his

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was uh trying to get source code for something so he could figure out how they were going to track him down and he

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ends up figuring out who the director of the department is and ends up trying to find a number and get connected to that

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person and and I won't go down the whole story as far as I know it but ends up targeting a specific person that had the

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data he wanted and got someone else to give him access into their stuff and it

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it's maybe a little too soon but this similar thing happened very recently in

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a couple of very well-known Casino yeah companies I mean social engineering

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there's something we said there was a couple scenes in there that I wanted us to go over I was like not enough time

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I mean it wasn't oceans 8 that I just saw and I think it was Sandra Bullock's character just I mean it wasn't

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technology oriented it was just simply security practices and uh it was just

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glorious scene so that guys check it out but she basically talked her way through

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all these different things and bypassed protocol processes I mean even just from

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a basic security perspective like it it was insane to watch and pretty impressive but it also was a reminder

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you have to have education due diligence for your end users right like you got to know how to help articulate some

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Concepts to people like my mom and look look just because I was in the industry doesn't mean I'm not your end user from

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hell I will click on anything my friends send me I know better I get it but

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sometimes you just get relaxed you just be like oh I trust you and that's it that and that but that that's what

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technology and like cyber security you know products and solutions and architectures

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and platforms you know like that we have at checkpoint that's that's the safety net right the safety that is we're going

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to have that moment where we click on something there you know you're going to have that moment where social like

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engineering works so you want to have that safety net and that safety net is strong cyber security with good cut

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prevention efficacy and all that kind of stuff so when you look at the scene Eric's def is right on number one if you

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had MFA turned on even if we have this magical hack hacking

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password device that can do these mysterious things uh you know like that

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would have stopped this whole attack from even happening so right you know I think I think that's that's the beauty

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of of of of strong and the best security is this it prevents those oops moments

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that even that even today in: 2023

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security in place Eric you don't have the uh the cameras you know on a network

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that's attached to the guy's computer that that's on his desktop like that bypasses that you have segmentation and

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zero trust like these are things that this is what we do what we do so we can stop these things from happening uh even

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with the best Hollywood you know creativity going at it yeah and yet life

31:43

imitates art and and again we look recently five years after that movie this has happened in the last few months

31:50

and it showed the casinos you don't need to get on site and use magnetrons and emps and drill holes under a casino to

31:57

hack it it can be done from another country it's probably it's probably happening right now that's the that's

32:03

the Stark reality is that the spear fishing attack and an execution probably around holiday scamming and you know

32:10

some type of like shopping deal is probably happening right exactly right now probably using the same methods of

32:15

of of of this scene from oceans 8 yeah know that makes well and and the the targeted individuals in the in the

32:22

actual successful recent Casino breaches were help desk yeah and educating the end users one thing but it was the help

32:28

desk that ended up resetting MFA credentials for these attackers to be

32:33

able to then gain access and so let me just clarify for those that are not technically oriented multiactor

32:40

authentication just you probably heard of single sign on multiactor is just an additional way to check and authenticate

32:47

yeah so anyone that doesn't know just throw that out there so guys you guys I knew this would be a lot of fun and if

32:53

you guys want to come back please I'd love to have you guys come back because clearly we just it wasn't even tip of

32:59

the iceberg it was like a needle point I mean ocean uh franchise I can see why you guys got into it so if I may um

33:07

because we have to go on a scale of one to 10 guys based on the two clips of the

33:13

two different movies that we saw how realistic do you think the oceans franchise is uh to

33:20

technology um you know I I think because of the I I'll I'll I'll give you the

33:28

because of the fact that they're older movies and now we're sitting here you know in

33:33

2023 I'll give them like a strong like eight seven and a half just because of I

33:39

think you know what they were trying to to portray you know many many years ago

33:45

e been in two th in the early: 2000

33:52

of eight out 10 of course seven and a half you technical people yeah

33:57

I think I I could I I I hear you and I mostly agree but I think there's so much

34:04

license taken with unrealistic stuff that it brings it down a little bit more for me you know there there's a couple of pieces that are very realistic but uh

34:11

I'll only go seven ah I I think yeah I thought you're GNA give me six and three

34:16

qus 6.75 you guys I'll go with an irrational

34:22

number instead you guys are seriously so much fun I honestly I've had so much fun

34:30

going over this with you and by all means if you guys want to come back just hit me up and let me know because this

34:36

you guys were a lot of fun to to chat with so yeah likewise anytime anytime so on that note guys I want to give time

34:43

back for folks to get back to real work and reality here so thanks again for

34:49

joining us everyone and we'll see you next time for checkpoint real talk that's a wrap on today's episode of

34:57

checkpoint real talk if you like this video hit that subscribe button and some of those other buttons to show us your

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appreciation and if you want to learn more or have any questions please let us know in the comments we'll see you next

35:10

time for another episode of checkpoint real [Music]

35:18

talk